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12 March 2010
Chalke and Toynbee go head-to-head in debate about God in public life (22/11/05)

Controversial Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee and Faithworks Founder Rev Steve Chalke MBE went head-to-head on Monday Nov 21 in a fierce debate about whether God should be a part of public life in Britain.

www.faithworks.info photograph

During the debate, held at Church.co.uk, both speakers addressed contentious subjects such as faith schools, religion and politics, faith-based welfare programmes and whether Britain can be called a secular country.

During their speeches, both speakers referred to the recent BBC poll, in which 75% of respondents said that the UK should retain Christian values, with Toynbee dismissing the poll as revealing the number of ‘cultural Christians’ in the UK, rather than the number of ‘committed Christians’.

“Britain is actually the most secular country in the world,” she argued. “Anyone who believes that they have the one and only truth will promote it wherever they go, of course they will. That is why the state must be the great guarantor of secularism. It’s time to keep God out of public life.”

Responding to her address, Chalke argued: “A strictly secular state sounds incredibly repressive to me. If all the churches were pushed out by a strictly secular state, I believe we would see a falling apart of the fabric of society.”

Speaking about the work of churches and other faith groups in Britain, Toynbee claimed: “Some of the programmes faith-based groups run are actually quite sinister and dangerous. They are naked indoctrination centres and should not receive public money to promote their religion.”

In response, Chalke said: “Churches are working in towns, cities and villages across the country, bringing social cohesion and improvement to peoples lives. They do this because of their faith, not in spite of it. It is their faith that drives their good works.”

The event, attended by MPs, civil servants, Christian community activists and representatives from secularist and humanist groups, also saw National Secular Society Director Keith Porteous Wood debating with social commentator Elaine Storkey.

According to Porteous Wood: “Religion is one of the biggest sources of oppression in the world, particularly against women and gays. Faith groups are also the ones most likely to discriminate, in areas like employment and the use of public funds.”

Responding to his argument, Elaine Storkey claimed: “A lot of the things we have heard about this evening, about religion being extremist or intolerant, are a denial of faith – of what it means to be a Christian. When you look at the many loving groups who are pouring themselves out for those in need because of their Christian faith, you can not say that faith is bad for public life.”

The event, which was organised as a response to Polly Toynbee’s article in the Guardian on July 22, in which she called for religion to be ousted from public life, was described by chairwoman Maeve Sherlock, CEO of the British Refugee Council, as “one of the most important debates in our country at this time.”

The debate was mirrored by an online debate, hosted on the Guardian website at http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/uk_politics/. Visitors to the website can continue the debate online over the next few weeks.

Click here to read more about what was said at the debate.

{ENDS}

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